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Julie Babis's avatar

I love the concept of Maga - it’s a real shame that it’s been taken over by an acronym. It could come the missing term I have been looking for!

I’m exploring the concept of women growing i to their power through perimenopause. I’ve actually started a new Substack called Fledgling Crone which I’m using to develop the idea.

The idea of a fourth stage of womanhood makes absolute sense if you look at aligning them with the four phases of the moon. The dark moon is always missing, but to me it correlates with the Crone years, which means that something else comes between full moon/motherhood and dark moon.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hi Julie. That's a fantastic point about the moon. I love this.

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Amanda Hughes | Author's avatar

Oooh! I LOVE THIS IDEA! Personally, filling in that blank space with the word "Magician" resonates most with me. My sons are grown adults, and while I am still their mother, I don't feel as "motherly" as I do "guiding." I also think Cronehood can be felt in the joints and bones -- physically and spiritually -- and I'm not there yet either. But I most certainly am a Magician, the MYSTIC STORYTELLER Magician to be exact, standing at my desk and wielding my writing tools. Thank you for posing this idea!

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hi Amanda. Yes there's something about bones and crone that just go together so well. Keep writing magician and thank you for taking time to read and reply.

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Louise Tilbrook ✨'s avatar

My two sons are both at Uni and your point about guiding rather than mothering us just perfect. It's an important distinction

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Lorraine Tilbury's avatar

+1. Also feel that same way about our own young adult children.

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Lizzie Swift's avatar

I love the naming of the phase-between as Queen 🙌 Personally, I am edging towards cronehood, dancing with her when nobody is watching, anyway. I've been reflecting a lot, lately, on how our changing fertility patterns affect our transitions. I was 38 when I had my only child, and he's now 16. So I feel that I retained an almost 'artificial' sense of youthfulness while he was young and going through primary school, surrounded as I was by mums a good ten years younger than me. Menopause came as quite a shock at 50, because it didn't feel concordant with my life stage. It took me (is taking me) a long time to accept my post-menopausal reality and all that comes with it, because it feels as if I was catapulted into it having missed a certain maturing phase in my 40s. Does that make sense? I guess few of us are truly ready for menopause... Perhaps a return to ritualising our various ages is needed. Perhaps I will try Queen on for size. She feels less daunting for sure...

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Lizzie I really appreciate your thoughtful replies and I hear you. I think ritualising our life phases is so important. I wonder whether the Queens have been coming out for you.

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Lizzie Swift's avatar

The Queens of Wands and Cups pop up with fair regularity!

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Sound practice well-being's avatar

Well into my crone years and it very definitely brings a huge don’t give a f@ck. The relief from having to be attractive, or decent is immense. No one looks at old ladies. But when I facilitate an Innerdance session or coach, or offer healing I can feel the added weight of my life’s wisdom deepening and strengthening the offering. We dislike the word because it has been used as a derogatory term for so long but the crone state is magnificent.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

It's so true. Crone has negative associations but It also means wisdom in my head. The wisdom of letting go of other people’s expectations maybe. What's an inner dance coaching by the way.

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Sound practice well-being's avatar

😀I missed a comma! Innerdance is a somatic movement meditation that is led by music and takes you on a journey. It has been the most transformative process I have encountered in my time on earth and I’ve tried many! I love to practice and to facilitate sessions. The coaching is more related to the day job, life, career, health coaching. Helping people to find solutions and answer questions without giving them the answers. I do struggle with the urge to say just lie down, I’ll put on a playlist and in two hours you’ll have worked it out.

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Erica Phillips Graves 🔮's avatar

In my foundational priestess years we also used “queen”. We even held a cruise trip in conference called “the queen’s convocation”. We had a guest at the temple Donna Henes who wrote “queen of myself”. Perhaps you’d like it? I no longer have my copy but now that I am about to enter my Queen years I may pick it up again.

https://a.co/d/1ZPH67N

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hi Erica. Thanks so much for the link. I've never come across it. Could you tell me what foundational priestess years are?

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Erica Phillips Graves 🔮's avatar

I am starting to write about these years, if you are interested - 2 parts so far…

https://open.substack.com/pub/ericaphillips/p/energy-work-and-ritual-part-1?r=1utrit&utm_medium=ios

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Erica Phillips Graves 🔮's avatar

it was my first years in my local goddess temple. They were my foundation, and I became a priestess there learning ritual, the divine feminine, and women’s circles.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Wow. Sounds fascinating.

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Louise Tilbrook ✨'s avatar

What a fabulous piece Claire. You've really made me stop and think this morning. I definitely resonate with the magician archetype and the fact that we have a 4th phase now makes so much sense. Like you, I haven't quite felt ready to take on my Crone status - I don't feel quite wise enough for that yet

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Oh Louise you are always so supportive. Thank you. Hey that's great you resonate with the magician. I can see that too.

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Josie Myall's avatar

Yes!! I wrote a really similar piece recently. I think with the rise in awareness of perimenopause in society at the moment, women are finding their power in the changes they move through. No longer something to hide. More like another shedding of identity, a freedom. So good! The Queen archetype feels like an exciting phase to step into and enjoy before the quieter wisdom of the crone. 🙏🏻🙌🏻

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Oh that's auspicious timing. Great minds think alike. Im really looking forward to reading this

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Josie Myall's avatar

Something rippling through the collective for sure 😊✨️

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Margaret Estelle's avatar

I have felt the Magician’s calling since entering perimenopause, and I strongly identify with the Queens. Together this quintet is extremely powerful and holds all five elements (Spirit, Fire, Water, Air, Earth) in balance. What a thought provoking piece, Claire!

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Brilliant. Did you see what @julie babis said about the moon phases too. Above.

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Margaret Estelle's avatar

Yes! And so true. More alignment.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Did I say thank you so much for sharing this. Thank you if I didn't

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Margaret Estelle's avatar

You’re welcome, Claire! One of my favorite posts I’ve read in the past month at least.

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Kristina Franziska Haas's avatar

I’ve always liked Wild Woman for that stage that definitely exists between mother and crone. 🐆

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

I REALLY like wild woman but sometimes when im doing the washing up im like hmm. Where has my wild gone.

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Kate Parker's avatar

Love the idea of being, becoming, the Queen, and totally adore all the Tarot Queens. I definitely feel more Queen-like than Crone.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hello Kate. Do you have a favorite queen? I love the queen of pentacles

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Kate Parker's avatar

The Queen of Cups. I love being near water plus I dowse once for a card that represented my beautiful greyhound girl (now over the 🌈 bridge) and she was the Queen of Cups too!

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Sally Jupe's avatar

Thanks for the letter Claire. But I have to be different and say I have noticed so many middle age women now using the word crone for themselves or others now. It feels a bit like a fad or fashion. No disrespect meant at all.

I really dislike the word. Regardless of whether it has any other noun attached to it or not. To me it sounds as I imagine it. The imagery it brings to my mind of old hags does nothing for me and I am just Me but at another age and a wonderful new phase of life. I don’t feel I need a new label because of my age or status as a woman now. Albeit ‘some’ people might give me one 😉

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hi Sally. Your difference of opinion is what I love. Why im here is to hear a variety of voices and opinions.Next week im writing a piece called drop the labels. We don't really need a word do we? I like the word crone but I don't see myself in that way. Thank you for taking time to read through.

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Sally Jupe's avatar

Look forward to reading your piece.

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Jo Morris's avatar

This really resonates, Claire. I like the idea of Queen being a step before crone.

I turned 48 this year, so I don’t yet feel fully crone (although I am excited about it) but a step before then does feel right!

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Im so glad you see yourself in it. Thank you so much for restocking it too.

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Penn's avatar

I’ve been thinking about this and I feel there is a transition between Mother and Crone, and absolutely your choice of term! I don’t resonate with Queen at all because I am not a ruler of anything. For me this stage feels like an apprenticeship and exploration in my aspirations to be a Crone or Wise Woman. My tuppence worth 🙂 Penn x

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Ahh yes. The queen as ruler. That's so true. I love your two penneth

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Penn's avatar

Thanks Amritavani 🙂 and I can’t wait to read your book when you do publish it! 🙂 x

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Kate Tremills's avatar

Oh I love the four phases!! And Queen fits beautifully. I am definitely in my Queen era — and it takes a lot of living, fumbling, failing, winning and learning to arrive there. I am here for this — with the tarot, too! 🧡🌻

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Hello Kate. Yes I feel more quernly too but in a way im all four at different times. You are welcome here

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Kate Tremills's avatar

What an incredible group of women. I am so delighted that I found your post and this group. And I love being all four. I feel that.

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Donna Druchunas's avatar

I love the idea. But you really do need to choose a different word. That one is taken and ruined beyond salvation. I’d go with warrior. Or maybe creatrix. Something about strength and creativity. Transformation.

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

I know right. Creatrix is often suggested as is warrior. I think you are right about Maga lol.

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Donna Druchunas's avatar

🫣

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Lyndsay Kaldor's avatar

Ooo I love this Claire, I absolutely agree that Mother to Crone is quite a big jump and I love the magical/queenly aspect of the phase in-between. Thank you for this illuminating post xx

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Claire Amritavani Brown's avatar

Ahh. Thanks Lyndsay. It's great to see you here, in fact I was thinking of you as I've been flower hunting recently.

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Lyndsay Kaldor's avatar

Ooo love that, which flowers have been calling to you? xx

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